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re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@ariadne@treehouse.systems @nova@hachyderm.io I do not believe that there is a "balance to be struck" here, personally. Corporate presence here is a strict negative to anyone who isn't a corporation. It can't even serve the "public shaming" purpose that Twitter had, because there's no outrage algorithms here.

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@hrefna@hachyderm.io You are Reply Guying to a post where you weren't invited nor prompted for a debate, while using FOSS as a pawn for corporate apologism and against community safety, and concern-trolling about "federation health", apparently without bothering to understand the deeper concerns.

Yes, you are going to get a hostile response.

@smhoekstra I'm also Dutch. It is just as much unconstructive propaganda that kills any useful discussion here, as it is anywhere else, and we very much have a "capitalist propaganda" problem here as well.

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@nova@hachyderm.io I'm certain that Hachyderm can receive the benefit of the doubt (eg. I have specifically asked my instance's admin to not defederate *yet*, to see how things play out first), but the same does not apply for corporations.

Corporations have been getting the benefit of the doubt with this sort of thing for decades, uninterruptedly, without exception, and every single time it has played out the same way.

It is well-understood to me why allowing corporations into a community space is a bad idea on a very fundamental and unsolvable level (I have actually expanded on this in various reply chains, like social.pixie.town/@joepie91/10), with mountains of recurring evidence to show for it. I expect the same to be true for many others in the fediverse.

Corporations, as a group, have simply run out of second chances for us.

I am also not some magical "ruler of the fediverse" with any sort of decisionmaking power - this was genuinely just meant as a heads-up to followers on Hachyderm, based on what I expect the response from the wider fediverse to be as this plays out.

And ultimately, the conclusion remains the same as in my original post: *if* Hachyderm continues to try and get brands onto the fediverse, then I expect it to be pretty widely defederated (and would certainly expect my admin to do so).

That doesn't mean that Hachyderm isn't *allowed* to do this, of course - it is ultimately an open protocol. But defederation is the likely response, and that is something that will have to be accepted in that case.

(I should note that *all* the replies from Hachyderm users so far have been Reply Guys trying to start a debate that I didn't invite them for, which isn't promising...)

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@nicolas17@treehouse.systems Particularly here: social.pixie.town/@joepie91/10

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@nicolas17@treehouse.systems Read the existing subthreads of my post. This post was not an invitation for debate.

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@ariadne@treehouse.systems Right, but that difference of "using their own instance" is precisely why that case is different, and why this case is worrying.

The situation with Hachyderm is that it is now instance policy to not only invite corporations but seemingly also to "win their trust in the fediverse" by pandering to their particular desires (see also: maia getting defederated from them).

Plus that the general vibe on the instance seems to be "what's the problem with corporations?", showing an absolute and complete ignorance to *why* people don't want corporations here, and instead trying to dress it up in a lovey-dovey "we're here to support the community" spiel.

*That* is ultimately what makes it a risk for corporate capture. Not the mere presence of corporations, but the active attempts to normalize them as a part of the broader community.

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@hrefna@hachyderm.io Frankly: fuck off with your "not in keeping with FOSS philosophies" bullshit. I am *intimately* familiar with FOSS culture, and how over the past years, corporate invasion has wrecked pretty much any chance of it doing good.

This was a heads-up for good-faith followers on Hachyderm, *not* an invitation for debate, and you are not getting one from me either.

*Certainly* don't try to use FOSS as a pawn in corporate apologism or, worse, implying that ensuring community safety is somehow incompatible with FOSS philosophies.

This is precisely the attitude that is responsible for the widespread toxicity and abuse in the FOSS community, and I have zero remaining patience for it.

re: kiwifarms, suspend list scraping 

it's confirmed that qoto.org used a fascist's tool to mass send emails to instances who suspend them for good reason. qoto.org/@freemo/1093608811876

qoto.org if you haven't already

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meta, kiwifarms 

@ben Yeah they seem to have been using the kiwifarms scraper thing to mass-mail all instances that defederated them

Half of web users are running ad blockers.

With your support and help, we can get that number higher.

Remember: qoto dot org is a "Free speech" instance that refuses to defederate the nasty and horrible and hate speech side of the fediverse.

You should block them.

Your admin should fediblock them.

kiwifarms, suspend list scraping 

It's important context that this tool was made by kiwifarms, and expliclity links to their git in the footer.

All of these requests have been along the lines of "look we have a perfect set of rules there's no possibility at all you blocked us for good reason".

1. we can block for whatever reason we want, it's a discussion to have within our own community, not with you.
2. you're using a kiwifarms tool to get this info. fuck off

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politics 

@smhoekstra The framing may not have been *intended*, but it was certainly there. I never said anything about communism, there was no reason to bring it into the conversation.

"Anything not capitalist is communist" is propaganda that is meant to dissuade criticism of capitalism, by painting anyone trying to *make* such criticism as an "undesirable" or "naive, not to be taken seriously".

I'm just not interested in engaging in any discussion on that premise. I have no reason to believe that anything I say will be taken seriously, and treated in any way other than patronizingly.

If that's not what you meant, then if you can clarify what you *did* mean (and provide a concrete point of disagreement or request of clarification about what I've explained earlier), I'd be happy to reevaluate. But as it stands, this just doesn't look like a discussion that's going to be productive.

"mastodon is awful you have to make all these different accounts because all of the instances are based around different hobbies"

me, posting about nothing but xena on a hacker instance for like two weeks: what

@smhoekstra If I'm being completely honest, I don't think a useful further discussion is possible here at all if you immediately frame it as "corporations vs. communism".

That's an extremely simplified "party politics" view that leaves no space for analysis of power dynamics and structural/systemic problems in and of themselves. It steamrolls any deeper understanding.

@f0x I don't think people even read that far, which unfortunately seems to be the predictable consequence of a large amount of "town square"--minded folks coming into fedi who immediately go "instance blocking?? that's really over the top, unacceptable, outrage" without bothering to understand why it's a thing

you get a ×2 bonus if your cw is an alliteration

@f0x I've been seeing it go around a bunch unfortunately, not everybody seems to be aware of its heritage

re: meta, mastodon marketing malarkey 

@Dee I am so, so tired of this widespread sentiment of "we need to make corporations trust the platform and recognize our legitimacy"

And like, no? Just don't? Why on earth would you need the recognition of a bunch of shitty organizations that are destroying society and the planet at large? Who does this serve?

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