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meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

Heads-up for any folks on hachyderm.io: I would recommend picking a different instance, as it seems likely that it'll get defederated from quite a few places at some point.

They seem to not only be happy with corporate accounts[1], but also apparently seek to "introduce trust with corporations" [and draw them to fedi?], which uhhhh yeah no.

This is a space for people, not for corporations. Let's not repeat the errors of the FOSS community (that eventually led to near-total corporate capture of FOSS) by inviting corporations into our spaces, not even "as long as they play nice".

[1] github.com/hachyderm/community

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

Can the corporate apologists kindly stop replying to this with some variation of "not all corporations are bad"?

You are not telling me anything I haven't heard a thousand times in my time on this earth, and there is a *reason* I am not considering it as a valid counterargument.

Maybe think about why that is, before assuming that I must just be clueless on the matter.

silly reply 

@joepie91 hmmmm... are you sure we Don't want an official :garfield: Jim Davis account here on pixie.town though? Maybe we can arrange something with his agent and trick him into using Tusky as a "twitter update"...

meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 Yes I agree. This seems to be the make it or break it moment for Masto as far as getting over the hump of getting a wider user base and so everyone should remain vigilant in their idealism in my opinion.

meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 some people have truly learned absolutely nothing about inviting corporations into open source projects

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@hazel It's truly depressing.

meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 for fuck’s sake!!!

meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 that's disappointing, there's quite a few people in the rust community on there that I'm following but no way do i want to stay federating with an instance that hosts corps....

@joepie91 @balrogboogie It would be acceptable if we didn't have largish instances, and we didn't want to grow the community

"This person hosts corporate emails", wtf

Go defederate with Office365 and try to feel useful

@joepie91 sorry, wrong toot, but still, thanks for the heads up

meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 I'm pretty new to Mastodon. What is the problem with having corporations in the fediverse?

As social media will always reflect society in some way, I would expect them to be part of some instance eventually. I can imagine use cases where having their helpdesk teams or money here would be useful, even.

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@stonehead I've explained the reasons a bit more here: social.pixie.town/@joepie91/10

And more fundamentally, fedi doesn't need to "reflect society" at all, it's a community platform run by volunteers for their own community building and social lives. There are entire swathes of society that we'd much rather not have here at all.

The whole "must reflect society" thing is basically just Twitter's "global town square" thing, but that doesn't apply here

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 I didn't say "must reflect" but "will reflect society". Mastodon is open source, is there anything which keeps companies from using it? And apparently Hachyderm sees possibilities - in some ways it's laudible that they at least pose conditions for companies. But this is all new to me, I think every instance will have their own considerations.

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@stonehead It's certainly possible for them to use the tech, it is open after all. But that doesn't mean that they will be accepted as part of the existing community, which is what the defederation part is about.

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 crimew.gay just ended up on their defed list for "Violation", whatever that means, after i announced that we would defederate from them in a week if they dont adjust their policies and to give users following us from there time to move https://crimew.gay/notice/APhWdO9olSXP5q8dHc

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@kitten I mean, in fairness, you are decidedly not corporation-friendly :p

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 absolutely not, but the fact that posting about planning on defederating from them is enough to end up on their very very short defed list, starred out on top of that, is very interesting to me lol

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 not all corporations are bad... pine is here on the fediverse, ubuntu is, suse, system76, sr.ht folks... I mean you can do whatever you want on your instance, but I appreciate having access to those and more

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 I don't quite see it that way myself

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@reto Great for you. I don't really care. I am not here to have a discussion about the relative merits of capitalism, and this was a heads-up, not an invitation for debate.

meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 « In the Hachyderm community you will find strong capitalists and even anti-capitalists. We expect you to consider these different perspectives while creating content on Hachyderm. »

🙃

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@stragu Gee that sure sounds very, what's the word, centrist

meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 I agree this is going to lead to a cultural problem -- if it hasn't already.

There is also another aspect: corporations seeking to profit by running mastodon instances, either thru the sale of ads or thru hosted instances or, most worrisomly, thru creating hyperscale implementations with ML-driven moderation.

I hate that I know several folks who want to do this *and* have the means to do it... and I've been "politely encouraging" them not to.

meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 yes, yesterday's rant was a sub-toot to a private conversation ... 😦

tech.lgbt/@aeva/10935468548676

meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 The few who've made their own instances are doing it right since it makes blocking them easy.

meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 yeah...no

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91

tbh i don't understand why hachyderm has tacked to allowing corporate accounts, given the folks in kris' discord were not really into the idea a couple of weeks ago. but then again, it's not my instance, and she's allowed to run her instance however she wishes I guess.

with that said, I don't think corporate accounts existing on the fediverse is "corporate capture." that characterization seems a little hyperbolic, especially since there have been brand accounts on fedi for years (social.raptorengineering.io/ra comes to mind).

if annoying brands show up and do things that annoy me, i can suspend their accounts, or if necessary, defederate their instance.

with all of the above said, i think that brands should run their own instances and not depend on community run ones, however. when $dayjob asked where they should sign up, i made it clear that they should deploy their own instance instead, if only for provenance reasons.

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@ariadne @joepie91 honestly I just wish they'd properly disclose which accounts are corporate on hachyderm, that way i can just block those and move on.

it's nice that they have a generic policy and i'd love to chatter with some folks there, but i just want to be able to know what individual accounts to filter out so my instance doesn't become a free brand marketing department.

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@glitch @joepie91

that is actually a good idea. i'm sure they would be willing to provide a list of approved accounts in their github repository if somebody asked them to do so.

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@ariadne @joepie91 I don't know if it's my place to ask that though, I'm technically just an outsider to their specific community and the instance i run is pretty tiny, so idk if I have the relevance to make that request.

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@glitch @joepie91

I went and opened github.com/hachyderm/community, lets see what she has to say.

I'm not personally likely to defederate hachyderm over this, but I can understand why people would want to.

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@ariadne @joepie91 Much appreciated! From what I've seen of her community management, I do have faith that it'll get a satisfactory answer.

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@glitch @joepie91

yeah I still think this thread is kind of an overreaction, but I also think that Hachyderm should improve their moderation processes too.

and they should be transparent about what partnerships they enter into.

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@ariadne Right, but that difference of "using their own instance" is precisely why that case is different, and why this case is worrying.

The situation with Hachyderm is that it is now instance policy to not only invite corporations but seemingly also to "win their trust in the fediverse" by pandering to their particular desires (see also: maia getting defederated from them).

Plus that the general vibe on the instance seems to be "what's the problem with corporations?", showing an absolute and complete ignorance to *why* people don't want corporations here, and instead trying to dress it up in a lovey-dovey "we're here to support the community" spiel.

*That* is ultimately what makes it a risk for corporate capture. Not the mere presence of corporations, but the active attempts to normalize them as a part of the broader community.

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91

re: Maia being defederated, I don't think that Maia was defederated to make corporations happy on Hachyderm. The moderators over there seem to be kinda jumpy and disorganized with individual mods doing their own thing.

I agree with your other points though. I don't think we have any obligation to "win corporate trust in the fediverse."

They will come or they won't come, but I'm not going to spend time working to make it more palatable for them.

meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@joepie91 this makes no sense to me. People can make public complaints to companies on Twitter and that tends to make them care more than private communication because they're being publicly shamed. Twitter is falling apart. It would be good if I can do the same thing on an open source platform once Twitter finishes its implosion.

Your instance might be "a space for people not corporations" but who are you to decide that for the whole fediverse?

re: meta, hachyderm, corporate capture 

@nicolas17 Read the existing subthreads of my post. This post was not an invitation for debate.

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