Sven Slootweg (soft-deprecated) @joepie91@pixie.town

@clarfonthey That is another thing that has been irking me as well, but I just don't know enough about Wube's internal structure to make any definitive conclusions about that, hence why I've kept my comments to the cultural conflict aspect (as there are some pretty well-documented cultural differences between North-American and the region where Wube is that could be relevant here).

@Crazypedia I haven't used it personally, but their marketing is setting off every kind of red flag for me, they seem to be marketing to the "both sides" crowd, ie. the "good journalism is journalism that does no investigation and just describes claims" view from nowhere. I've avoided them for this reason.

(To that crowd, "bias" often just means "actually making ethical statements rather than just treating every possible outcome as fundamentally equal")

@awoo I vaguely recall some vendors doing weird shit with their Android builds where the network connectivity is misdetected by anything other than their own phone UI because it's internally tagged as another thing, so this one *might* not actually be KDE's fault (though I don't remember which vendors did this exactly)

@eniko @igimenezblb Thinking about it a bit more, that's already kind of implied in the 'learned' part of 'learned helplessness' so I'm not really sure now where this apparently widespread belief of it being 'human nature' comes from 🤔

@eniko @igimenezblb I don't think that's some kind of fundamental human nature though, rather a result of the experience people have had through their lives (which, let's be real, haven't exactly featured particularly much agency over the shape of their own lives)

@q A big deal is made about them mostly because of the governance issues surrounding their introduction, but while their design does imply a lot of internal changes in Nix, flakes *themselves* are a fairly simple concept:

They're like a sort of package.json for chunks of Nix code. A manifest with a standard-ish structure for exporting different kinds of things in predefined ways, where you can make certain assumptions about it, so that you can build a bigger whole on top of it.

That's really all it is. Everything else is internals changes to make this actually work in practice, but this is the fundamental problem it's meant to solve, a standardized declarative way to export and reuse piles of Nix without having to centrally manage everything in one repo or deal with 5 slightly different sets of import/update semantics.

@virtulis The 'not converging' is a problem there, unfortunately - the authorization process is emergent from the state convergence, and so different parties would have a different view of authorization rules.

@tante This is exactly the same thing I've noticed as well (this phenomenon has pretty much taken over the JS world since the startups rolled in during a hype cycle), but frustratingly we now seem to be looping back to "don't use other people's code ever" instead of people actually critically asking themselves whether maybe it's the *type* of dependency that's the problem 🙁

@virtulis (I'm still looking into your suggestions, by the way, it just takes a while to absorb all of this properly)