Sven Slootweg @joepie91@pixie.town

@mdione @ebel Safety sidenote: if the battery has *inflated* (in which case the shell of the device will seem to be bulging weirdly, or gaps will have formed between the parts), then don't do the long-charging thing - in that case the battery is actually dead and needs to be disposed of safely.

@mdione @ebel FWIW, they can sometimes be revived by leaving them on a (safe, suitable) charger for a *very long* time, on the order of days or weeks.

(On the point of replacing e-readers, I'd recommend looking at other e-ink options as well - I've been quite happy with my Pocketbook, also in terms of durability. Much better than the Kobo I had before, which didn't survive a single low drop...)

@packbat Yep. That's exactly the sort of thing I was alluding to with "only a threat to the least privileged people".

Copyright as a whole is a system of hierarchical power, a system of oppression; and as systems of hierarchical power always do, they might *claim* to protect the most vulnerable, but in practice they're a big hammer for the most privileged.

@aylamz @ch0ccyra1n Indeed they are not tech companies, but I don't see why that would mean they can't do gradual rollouts or testing channels (especially with eg. GNOME getting backed by Red Hat). The concept is not very complicated to implement.

> the devs are much more motivated to fix stuff if their and their users' workflow is broken.

I'm sure, but is this software being made for the developers, or is it being made for the users? Because it's the users who end up suffering.

@aylamz @ch0ccyra1n When people talk about "issues with Wayland", they generally aren't talking about the general technical quality like the performance or tearing, but rather about tools they have come to rely on (toolbars, screenreaders, automation scripts, etc.) no longer working.

> The reason for the wayland push is/was (afaik, might be wrong) to get more people to use wayland, to get the issues fixed faster. The wayland issues aren't going to get fixed if no one's using it.

Sure, but there's a reason why tech companies have gradual rollouts and 'insider programs' and whatnot for these things. You want to do this in a controlled manner, and on an opt-in basis for as long as possible (even if actively encouraged), to avoid setting everyone's workflows on fire, like has been happening here.

The desire is understandable, but switching everyone over to an incomplete replacement and then letting them be the guinea pigs without ever getting their agreement, is absolutely the wrong way to go about this, and that is why people despise Wayland so much.

@packbat @owl Oh, that's new - it used to be outright banned.

@schrottkatze@chaos.social @ch0ccyra1n Right, it looks like all of these don't work because they expect some sort of privileged access to the window manager (in the sense of being able to manage windows/layering and/or capture input)?

That's definitely one of the major items that still seems to be missing standardization - KDE has a custom extension (org_kde_plasma_shell) but only KWin implements that, and I can't immediately find a standardized equivalent :(

This is essentially the "no standard protocol for separating window manager from compositor" problem, as far as I can tell. Which is solvable in principle, but it doesn't seem like anyone has yet.

@schrottkatze@chaos.social @ch0ccyra1n What specific issues are you running into today, and on which DE? As there's a fairly good chance that they are DE issues rather than Wayland issues, by this point (with the important stuff being more or less stable now).

@ch0ccyra1n I don't know enough about the internal politics within desktop environment projects to know what exactly drove these decisions; all I can see from my perspective is Wayland *just about* starting to be usable (with a bunch of major features still in staging/unstable), but some DEs have already been shipping it for a long time with predictable complaints following that (like missing screensharing).

Maybe the devs were impatient, maybe some manager in a company somewhere jumped the shark, maybe it was a consequence of Xorg support being unsustainable, maybe it was something else, I really have no idea about that part, unfortunately.

(My perspective is mainly that of a Wayland implementer with no direct involvement in other implementations)

@owl Right. They don't want the WTFPL either, even though that is just about as unambiguous as it gets (and actual lawyers have confirmed that it's a valid license).