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@ryanlcooper@mastodon.social @adamdavidson@journa.host Sure. But then the consequence is that you get defederated if this isn't compatible with the existing community's norms. That's how it's meant to work.

@blondino@c.im @adamdavidson@journa.host @Gargron@mastodon.social @tom4okstate@masto.ai That's not how Mastodon works. If your instance federates with them for *any* reason, their posts will automatically show up in the federated feed. That is not an active admin decision.

hello venture capitalists, why don’t you ‘venture’ directly into the center of the sun

I find the hashtag Twitter refugee disgusting, very white-western mindset. Guys, it’s a social network that’s collapsing, not your human rights in danger, your freedom, or your life. You moved your account from a platform to another one to gain a certain amount of freedom of speech that the other space was censoring. That’s it. Refugees are living a totally different experience. Please… please.

CW meta 

Increasingly convinced that "content warnings" should actually be called "content notes" instead

@scanlime (I've sent them an e-mail btw, they did end up responding to the DM!)

CW rectification, meta, very important 

Hi all, I've been tooting/boosting a lot over the past few days about CW use, and expecting people to use it according to community norms. While I still stand behind that, there's something important I want to clarify.

I've learned that there are people misusing the "use CWs" as a hammer towards marginalized folks, particularly BIPOC, who are just talking about their own lived experience and whose lives are politicized through no choice of their own.

I'd recommend reading this toot for more details: wandering.shop/@jessmahler/109

This is obviously not acceptable, and not the point of "use CWs". I wasn't aware of this happening, likely because of this instance's strict moderation, so I failed to mention this nuance before - sorry for that.

So, to summarize:
- Yes, CWs are important. You should use them, even if you personally wouldn't need them. They help others control *when* they see something that may be difficult for them to process.
- *But* you should not feel pressured to CW your own lived experiences. I recommend the policy in (the replies to) the linked post: Always CW other people's experiences and causes, but only do so for your own if you feel able to. It's a kindness, not a requirement.
- No, CWs will not "reduce engagement". If anything, it will make it *more* likely that people will interact with you, because they can do so on their own terms. This works very differently here than on other platforms, take some time to get used to it!
- Anyone who uses this as a hammer towards marginalized folks talking about the things they themselves experience, is highly suspect. The usual guideline of "punch up, not down" applies here.
- *Particularly* think carefully about this when interacting with BIPOC. This behaviour apparently played a big role in them being run off fedi before, from what I understand. That's one of the darker sides of fedi history, that absolutely needs more consideration.

Thanks all.

Seeing lots of excitement about the #MIT instance (@mastodon.mit.edu) and ppl wanting to set up their own university instances. but very important--the MIT instance is entirely volunteer run and is NOT associated with uni admin. universities are massive PR machines (literally hedge funds with a bunch of academics attached) and will not hesitate to co-opt a grass-roots community associated with their brand. If you want to start your own uni instance, DO NOT let uni admin get involved!!

meta, long, + 

#twittermigration #meta

ok I have seen a lot of people posting introductions to mastodon and how-tos and #feditips, and they've all probably explained it better than I could

but a thing I have not really seen said directly is just that... this isn't twitter, not only in terms of social stuff and general vibe, but in terms of the software and how it works and what the experience of using it will be like, and *that's okay*.

Like. I am Internet Old so I have been through a bunch of social media migrations and sites closing down. adjusting to the new place can be weird and kind of suck sometimes. way back in the day I hung out on message boards most of the time, and when people started to migrate over to using sites like Livejournal, I hated the idea - how could you have proper conversations with people on a *blog*? It would never work, fandom and discussion could never thrive there, right? But as it turned out, even though it was a different experience, it thrived pretty well because people used the threaded comments to hold conversations, and it was actually kind of nice having a space where you could curate your own experience a bit more, and I got used to it.

Also, on livejournal you used to have a choice of 6 (or like 20, if you paid for them) different avatars, and you could choose which one to use for each individual post or comment, and I loved that. So did basically everyone else. Making cool LJ icons was a THING. And when Livejournal decided to jump the shark and I moved over to a new service, I was like what the *fuck*, you just get one icon for everything forever? I hate this and it will never catch on and it's broken and it sucks.

But actually I did get used to it (I mean, ngl, I still think it was an awesome feature and I'd love if it made a comeback somehow, but I did) and it turned out that despite not having multiple icon choices, the new place had a bunch of good stuff about it that Livejournal hadn't had. And then I got used to Tumblr and various similar blogging sites, and even though I missed icons and threaded comments, I loved how easy it suddenly was to find cool art and photography and fandom stuff and other people who liked the things I liked.

And then tumblr jumped the shark and I came over here and I was like, huh this is confusingly different to tumblr and I can't write longform stuff because it's a microblogging platform and cws work differently to readmores and I can't quote-respond to people and that's weird. And, again, turned out that even though the fediverse lacks some stuff I liked, it has its own stuff that makes it awesome.

There is definitely kind of a learning curve to using fedi, but there is when you're getting used to any new site. And I absolutely get that people are missing specific things that they liked on twitter. But I think that maybe sometimes it is helpful to look at it as "Mastodon does stuff differently to Twitter", instead of "Mastodon is FAILING as a Twitter replacement".

meta 

@gmc (Addendum: it will take until at least a while after the Twitter influx slows down, to really see the social dynamics of fedi. Right now, fedi looks nothing like it normally does, because it's literally a majority ex-Twitter folks.)

The cat just shoved open the bathroom door, smacked me with it, then walked away

meta 

@gmc It's very much dependent on how you interact with the community. The problem with the current Twitter wave is that it's so large that it's overwhelming everybody, and entirely too many people are not following the very simple rule of "hang around and integrate somewhere for a while before declaring that stuff needs to be changed".

So essentially, by this point the lesser evil is "scaring everybody off", because the alternative is basically our own Eternal September, and the death of what the fediverse was. And yes, that will unfortunately have some overcatch.

If you *do* follow the integration rule, however, and you are respectful of the existing community norms (including the 'weird' ones) even if you don't initially understand why they exist, then you certainly are welcome here.

This place is just fundamentally different from Twitter, and for good reason. It will take time for people to adapt to that, and experience/understand why these norms exist. Some people are not willing to take that time, and that makes them a threat. That's pretty much what it boils down to. If you *are* willing to take that time, there is no issue.

meta 

@polyfloyd @scarnecchia Because unlike something like Matrix (which is fairly point-to-point), fedi is far more community-based. That means that for example, toots from federating instances will make it onto the federated timeline and into the hashtag search, even if they are not directly sent *to* you.

Likewise, federating means that your conversations are accessible to people on the instances you are federating with. When an instance shows disregard for community norms, there's good reason to expect that they will also do so in other ways that don't necessarily involve tooting at users (see eg. the scraping nonsense).

Fedi as we know it today is primarily built and for marginalized and vulnerable folks, and that means that unlike with most platforms, chances are generally not taken with moderation here. It's just not worth the risk.

infosec bros when u scrape a publicly accessible website by a megacorporation: WTF no stop that !!! that's evil and bad and will be bad for enconomy 😡😡😡😤

infosec bros when u scrape a federated social media site primarily used by marginalized people: wtf this is the best idea ever keep it up 👍👍👍

fediblock cryptobros 

#fediblock cryptodon.lol

crypto enthusiasts not wanting to respect the community. Expect nothing good from them.

So if a major company does end up adding support for ActivityPub or other fediverse features I would be very hesitant about actually federating with them. As long as they DO connect to the larger network they'll siphon off the user base, and we KNOW that they will turn on it. Corps cannot make promises, cannot be trustworthy, cannot guarantee they won't betray principles. They are structurally incapable of it, no matter what their humans say.

#mastodon (2/2)

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A discussion about distributed federated systems else-network did bring up some concerning history that we should keep in mind:

#XMPP was, briefly, the dominant messaging system on the Internet. It was fully federated allowing hosting anywhere. Major extensions were being done by major companies (Apple adding voice and video for example). And it all fell apart because the three big providers (Apple, Google, Facebook) ditched it to have more control.

#mastodon (1/2)

meta, influx 

A lot of new Twitter folks still seem to be having a lot of trouble understanding that no, this is one place where their wants and needs are *not* at the top of the list, and instead the needs of vulnerable communities are. And I'm growing extremely tired of this entitled refusal to accept that.

Every single fucking time marginalized folks build something neat, the rest of the world comes rolling in and declares that They Must Now Be Catered To, damn the consequences. And the answer is no.

@scarnecchia And since this is a federated network, you are, of course, free to create an instance that doesn't do CWs for politics/news, or that otherwise doesn't respect the existing culture. But then the consequence of that is that you will very likely be defederated from a significant chunk of the network.

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