Sven Slootweg (🔜 WHY2025) @joepie91@pixie.town

@bananas (The "Common" is silent)

@whreq Prototypes heb ik persoonlijk niet per se zo'n probleem mee (mits er nog enigszins nagedacht wordt voor het printen, weet niet of ik heel blij ben met de steeds sneller wordende printers om die reden), maar ik kan wel heel slecht tegen dat fenomeen dat mensen doorlopend willekeurige dingen gaan zoeken om te printen om maar iets te printen, terwijl ze er eigenlijk geen doel voor hebben...

@dequbed Which leaves the question: what is actually left of this justification in practice?

@dequbed Right, and in practice it doesn't actually work that way, and/or the screening and training is not actually enough to prevent problems. It's particularly blatant in the US, but also a problem elsewhere.

The Netherlands is arguably the poster child for this approach, with deescalation training that is *miles* ahead of many other places in my opinion, and yet it *still* regularly goes wrong here, with very little accountability.

@alina I can describe my view of it in the hope that it is helpful, though of course I don't know if it's the same reason as you have:

Because 'social media' as we practice it today centers entirely around the self, it is egoistic and essentially a popularity contest... community building is an afterthought and it is highly individualistic, and so instead of bringing (even like-minded) people together, it just locks everybody in a permanent battle of "showing you are better than others by some metric".

The exact metric varies by platform and subculture but there always is one on profile-oriented 'social' media, even this one, and it isn't really very 'social' at all.

Does that sound about right to you, or were you thinking of something different?

@amcewen@mastodon.me.uk Basically what I'm trying to get at is that in my experience, in a mixed environment like that, it's basically always the radical folks who are socially expected to yield, and not the non-radical folks, and the article seems to suggest that that's not the case here and I wonder how :)

@amcewen@mastodon.me.uk That part I understand, though that's more the other part of the equation - the radical folk not scaring off the non-radical folk. That part I know how to do.

But how do the radical folk fare under this, are they actually able to do radical projects, and if yes, how is the interference from non-radical folk which permeates other such communities prevented?

Because if you have to constantly walk on your toes to not come across too radical, then in practice that mostly ends up just de-radicalizing projects, rather than the other way around (so an Overton window shift but in the other direction).

@amcewen@mastodon.me.uk Having read it, there's one specific question I have: you mention that radical and non-radical folks co-exist, but in just about every past attempt I've seen at spaces doing this, it just ended up with the radical folks burning out because of non-radical folks constantly making demotivating comments, concern-trolling, accusing radical folks of "overreacting", and so on, and so forth, forcing all of their energy to go towards "defending their ideas against status-quo assumptions" instead of actually executing them and getting results.

How do you prevent this from happening?

@dequbed I'm using it as a simplifcation in the sense that it is generally understood, as in "at a scale where you need repeatable and automatable processes" - I know that in manufacturing it has a very specific meaning, but given that this is trying to colour outside of the established lines, I don't see much purpose in rigidly following a definition that does not have space for my usecase anyway 🙂

@jag@weirder.earth @rgbunny @bluecaller@urusai.social I've observed every flavour of bigotry you can think of, and then some 😐 Learned about quite a few less well-known dogwhistles during that time

@amcewen@mastodon.me.uk @DoESLiverpool Thanks! Going to give that a read.

@lily @mae TIL - not quite what I was going for in this case, but seems like it might be useful for some other stuff on my todo list :)

@dequbed I recognize that it is challenging but I do not agree that it is fundamentally impossible, hence why I am trying to see if anyone has been doing this already in some form or other :)

@nico I can think of one that wasn't forked because of the license (but other governance reasons) that is still alive, but I agree that many of them seem to be license forks. Though often that does seem rooted in "some developers wanted to make it a Business and the others did not".

@rgbunny @bluecaller@urusai.social Throwing in my two cents here: I used to moderate PrivacyTools and it took an incredible amount of work to clean up that space and get rid of all the bigotry. It's incredibly entrenched in the whole subculture, to the point that I'd say it's nearly impossible to run a privacy anything without constantly getting overrun by bigots. You'd ban one and 5 minutes later the next 4chan bro rolled in.

After many months of work (and a lot of complaints about the rigorous moderation) things did eventually get better, and I've been told that the current mods have been doing a pretty good job of keeping it that way. But I know of literally no other privacy spaces that aren't bigoted-by-default... 😞