Sven Slootweg (soft-deprecated) @joepie91@pixie.town

@hyperreal Sure. Bun is one that shows up a lot. Likewise Vercel.

@gsuberland@chaos.social Assuming this is in reference to the Matrix thing, keep in mind that there's a bit of a special dynamic going on there; whenever a problem or vulnerability in Matrix anything is found, there's a small group of (always the same) people that sees this as an opportunity to start going around and loudly telling people "don't use Matrix, see, it's bad".

So "stop saying we shouldn't use Matrix"-type responses are usually more likely to be in reply to that phenomenon, than to the original finder of the issue.

@modulux Yep, this ended up being it! Thanks again!

@modulux Oh, this one looks closer to what I'm looking for at a glance - will give it a read, thanks 🙂

@raito Okay, I think *that* is the key point I was looking for. But this still leaves the question: if there's Cell/RefCell and there's also RwLock/Mutex, which seem to exist for the same purpose, why would you be using one or the other?

@dcreager That seems to have been the most useful one so far, thanks! It does seem to explain part of what I'm wondering about, but I'm having to make some inferences here as it mostly talks about Mutex/RwLock - do Cell and RefCell exist for the same reason of "doing runtime instead of compile-time checking"? And if so, and they are just not thread-safe, why would you ever use the not-thread-safe ones?

@raito Hmm, this seems a bit too dense/abstract for me - it seems to be *about* interior mutability, but doesn't seem to explain how eg. Rust ended on the Cell/RefCell abstractions, or exactly what the difference is with your standard mutable/immutable references.

The problem I keep running into is that everyone says "you can't mutate a thing to which you have a shared reference, for safety reasons, but if you put it in a Cell/RefCell then you can" and it is entirely unclear to me why it's suddenly okay in a Cell/RefCell and how it ensures safety in that case, and if it's so easy, why that isn't just default behaviour for references, and so on.

@modulux Yep, I did read that, but unfortunately it doesn't really talk about the "why does it exist", so I'm having a lot of trouble understanding it in context - and I don't really want to just "add it whenever the compiler complains" either, I need a mental model to reason about where it's appropriate, basically.