Bonus myth, re: Things that "everybody knows" that are wrong (has references to crimes)
Bonus round!
THE LORD OF THE FLIES
This novel featured a group of kids, alone on an island after a plane crash, regressing into conflict and violence, and is often named as a cautionary tale of how things will immediately fall apart when there is no law and order.
Unfortunately, that story is entirely made-up nonsense. A similar incident actually happened in 1966, where a couple of kids from (near) Tonga stranded on the island 'Ata, only being rescued 15 months later.
Contrary to the story in Lord of the Flies, they successfully governed themselves, developed ways to resolve conflicts among themselves, kept themselves healthy even despite injury, and survived the experience.
re: Bonus myth, re: Things that "everybody knows" that are wrong (has references to crimes)
@mdstevens0612 I'm honestly not sure that even that holds up, in an isolated-from-society setting.
Bonus myth, re: Things that "everybody knows" that are wrong :boost_requested: (has references to crimes)
@joepie91 In Lord of the Flies it only breaks down once fuedalism and capitalist ownership starts to come in. They're working well for a long time together.
re: Bonus myth, re: Things that "everybody knows" that are wrong :boost_requested: (has references to crimes)
@joepie91 Welctually, there's a crucial difference between the real scenario and the fiction: the group of real-life kids was self-selected, and generally liked each other. Then, self-governance is reasonably easy to build. Lord of the Flies scenarios generally arise in real life only when a bunch of kids (or adults) are selected by an external actor, happen to have strong personality clashes between them, and forced into a small shared space. Which, ironically, kind of resembles both the famous scientific error about wolves with Greek letters that doesn't apply to free-living wolves, and an average corporate workplace.
re: Bonus myth, re: Things that "everybody knows" that are wrong (has references to crimes)
@riley Yes and no; while that distinction *does* likely exist, the original claim/story does not make that distinction either, and the real problem there is "people being forced into structures they do not wish to exist in, rather than governing their own lives".
So it still doesn't support the belief that people claim it supports; namely, that people are fundamentally incapable of self-governing without an authoritarian leader.
re: Bonus myth, re: Things that "everybody knows" that are wrong :boost_requested: (has references to crimes)
@joepie91 My argument is that a group's incapability of self-governing arises from authoritarian meddling.
Bonus myth, re: Things that "everybody knows" that are wrong :boost_requested: (has references to crimes)
Huh, not sure if it's my memory being hazy, but I think I've seen the stanford prison experiment mainly as a tale of "peoplenwill be willing to commit atrocious acts if they can push away the reaponaibility" rather than developing malice on thwir own.
Which I think was still useless, because I think the participants got actually forced, but I'm not sure.
Recently I've seen more talk about the kord of the flies stressing that it is specifically about british boarding schools, which are kif of terrible, and that it still took a lot of time, and the arrival of the titular lord of the flies to make their society fall apart.
Bonus myth, re: Things that "everybody knows" that are wrong :boost_requested: (has references to crimes)
@joepie91 Love what one person once said: "Lord of the Flies only truly shows how upperclass private school white boys would act if left unsupervised" and it has never left me.
I do also think about that time they left two groups of kids together for a weekend but separated them by gender and the girls faired much better than boys but that wasn't really a formal experiment.