XMPP, Matrix
So the latest XMPP proponent argument against Matrix was "Element works with cops, that's why you should use XMPP instead"
And here I see a Conversations developer and an ejabberd developer being excited about XMPP being adopted by German cops
It's almost as if the weirdly aggressive arguments coming from those XMPP proponents (it's always the same bunch of people) are made in bad faith
re: XMPP, Matrix
@joepie91 I feel like both also have way different uses?
SMS/WhatsApp/Signal/Skype -> XMPP
Discord/Slack/IRC -> Matrix
re: XMPP, Matrix
@joepie91 this reminds me I should set up a XMPP bridge for my matrix server
re: XMPP, Matrix
@eater@cijber.social @joepie91@social.pixie.town Matrix has bridges for signal and stuff, so for a single user instance, it's good aggregator.
re: XMPP, Matrix
@eater Reasonable discussions can be had about that sort of thing, but crucially they are never had by the people I'm talking about - whose claims generally boil down to something along the lines of "Matrix is just a malicious attempt at displacing XMPP, and fragmenting the messaging space" while being completely ignorant to the reasons why it exists or, y'know, the actual adoption history of XMPP
re: XMPP, Matrix
@eater And the frustrating thing is that while most people recognize the absurdity of their claims on the face of it, some people don't, and then it filters through a few layers of distortion and pops up as a less-obviously-wrong version of the same rhetoric
Resulting in ongoing harassment of Matrix folks (both core devs and just people in its dev community)
re: XMPP, Matrix
@joepie91 blehhh
the adoption history of XMPP is actually very strong,
re: XMPP, Matrix
@joepie91 I used to be on the XMPP Standards Foundation for almost a decade, and some military using XMPP was definitely not something anybody had a problem with, to the contrary. This went so far as even having some XEPs for military use cases. I got the impression I was the only one to whom this felt wrong.
So yeah, that’s a really odd criticism of Matrix. I believe the real issue at heart here is that some people are invested into XMPP for decades and just cannot let go, cannot accept it’s dead. I was involved with XMPP for over a decade, too, but switched over to Matrix. There is no point in desperately trying to keep a dead horse alive, and Matrix has achieved all the things XMPP never could in over a decade. Matrix had proper branding and a good solution for mobile devices early on as well as a multi-platform flagship client, something XMPP still hasn’t achieved today.
// Edit: I forgot the most important thing: Matrix managed to have working end-to-end encryption that even works when someone signed in with a new device. It implemented cross-signing and once the new device is verified, the old ones share the keys for history. To this day, Matrix is still the only IM system that has managed to pull this off in a way that actually works and has a user-friendly UX. All other IM systems either need every device verified separately in all combinations (if both users have 2 devices, that’s 4 verifications already and 9(!!) verifications if both have 3 devices!) or have one master device and the others as puppets (e.g. Signal, WhatsApp). It has become so normal for me that I completely forgot about it, although nobody else has managed to pull this off so far.
re: XMPP, Matrix
That same bunch of people also often tends to be suspiciously close to channer culture, which should maybe be a clue, idk