I saw a post earlier that basically said "the software development world absolutely has its own version of antivaxxers" and this feels like it just further confirms it
Like, how could a belief that is so obviously false once you actually reason through it ("ESM is viable for direct use in the browser"), and so frequently disproven by people still using build tools in practice... still become canonically accepted as true?
@alive Time-to-paint is not the only metric that matters - time-to-interaction does too. And that's absolutely affected by network latency on most modern websites (and widely recognized as important too!).
So at that point the question becomes "is it worth removing a single fully-automatable build step from the development process, at the cost of making the site considerably slower for everybody?" - and as far as I am concerned, the answer to that is a resounding "no".
And indeed, in practice virtually every ESM-based development stack uses a bundler somewhere in the process; sometimes without the developer being aware, sometimes with the stack deliberately using different words to avoid calling it a bundler.
@joepie91 do you think that the benefits of reducing the size of individual bundles and not loading uncommonly-used parts of the code for every visitor are just not big enough to matter in practice? (or is there a easy way to do that sort of thing with CJS that i'm not aware of?)
certainly it makes sense to me to say that most sites that use ESM directly would be better served by bundling, but it does seem to me like there are tradeoffs, and there are times when it's reasonable to use ESM.
@joepie91 yeah, that makes sense. the cases where i've used it and felt like it's a good solution are ones where i'm writing all of the code myself, makes sense that it would work poorly if you're using libraries or not writing with that specifically in mind.
i don't really follow anything js ecosystem related so i was basically unaware of the hype around it until just now 😅
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