@skye oh, gosh, yes!
I think a lot of it relates to the concept of zero tolerance. It sounds like a good idea in principle not to have any tolerance of racism, misogyny, queerphobia, etc. But that would see every single one of us ostracised. Society is so deep in various flavours of hate that we're all stained by it.
A better measure, in my view, is whether a person is willing to grow and change. But that is basically impossible to quantify.
@JetlagJen @skye I... sort of half disagree on the "impossible to quantify" part? Like, it is correct in the most literal sense, but IMO the more important thing is that it's not really *necessary* to quantify exactly.
Generally speaking the people who are unwilling to change, are *very very obviously* unwilling to change, to the point that to anyone vaguely familiar with the signs, there's really not any doubt.
That leaves a small amount of cases where it really is difficult to deal with as a community (think "always immediately promises to change but never does"), but those are generally few enough that they can be collectively handled on a case-by-case basis.
@joepie91 @skye yes.
This is additional detail and nuance that I hadn't fully thought through, but I think it's accurate. Thank you for adding it.