Huh, I think I might have found a solution for the problem in Matrix where 'roles' are really difficult to implement because they break orderability assumptions in the stateres protocol
Curiously, it looks like this problem can be solved with basically the same mechanism as the Spaces access control replication MSC that I wrote a while ago
I doubt this solution will ever make it into the Matrix protocol, to be clear. I gave up on the MSC process a while ago. But I'll definitely be working on it for #Atoki.