@joepie91 idk, assuming we're talking about the same person and the same problem, I haven't seen much helpful advice. I have certainly seen a lot of advice though.

Yes, this is probably a white popular person discovering what marginalized folks have always been exposed to.

But overall if there's any *existing* solution offered besides "block and mute" or "find someone else to do it for you", I'm not aware.

I don't think fediverse doesn't scale. I think there's a certain type of people actively trying to prevent it from "scaling".

Also, complaining on the internet is everyone's right, especially complaining *about* the internet. Me and you do it all the time, we just don't have a hundred of verysmart people to come tell us we're wrong for every goddamn post. I'd probably start complaining at ten.

@virtulis I've been tracking the whole thing for a while now, including clicking through to read the replies (sort of a habit when people complain about harassment, because I usually don't see it due to the strict blocking on this instance.)

Things I have seen repeatedly over the past several months:
- People suggesting to move to a different instance, noting that much of the harassment seems to come from a few instances and mas.to is known to be too conservative in blocking these
- People suggesting *specific* other instances to move to
- People offering to host the account on their instance, with a certain moderation/defederation policy
- People explaining extensively and calmly why CWs exist, what problem they solve, and why they are important
- People explaining that Mastodon isn't really made for large amounts of followers or the needs of influencers
- People noting that it's *okay* for Mastodon to not work well for them, it doesn't have to be for everybody

Notably, the annoyed/frustrated comments got angry responses from the person we're talking about. The helpful ones were either ignored entirely, or the response was "I don't want to do that" with either no elaboration or "that's too much work".

Like, the benefit of the doubt has been extended here well beyond what could be reasonably expected, and every form of help or advice has been rejected or ignored.

And there's a point where it just becomes this: https://social.pixie.town/@joepie91/111513879991587108 - and as far as I'm concerned, that point has well been reached by now.

@virtulis Or to put it differently: the responses have been almost indistinguishable from the usual tantrums thrown by privileged folks when they are faced with something that, for once, doesn't cater to *them, specifically*.

I was willing to give them more benefit of the doubt given their history, but that is not infinite.

@joepie91 well, yes, that's obviously what it is. I guess I just didn't expect you to think it was anything else in the first place, guess that explains the disappointment :)

At the end of the day everyone is a human and will do or say disappointing things. Some just have a bigger audience for that.

There have been plenty of not popular people of various backgrounds complaining about how fedi is too much work. Basically no one in my existing circle is on here because of some variation of that. That's just not noteworthy.

I don't think anyone is entitled to demand that fedi software or culture bend to what's comfortable for them, and sure as hell don't think the needs of popular youtubers should be a priority of open source projects.

But idk, let the man whine.

More interestingly, how do you think the fedi will react when there *is* commercialized fedi software catering to popular people or brands? Because I'm sure it's coming, and I'm sure a large portion of folks will be pissed. Then again, everyone here is pissed all the time anyway.

@virtulis There's a major distinction between random people and "influencers" having such views, though: the latter have significant, well, influence.

Especially for someone who has a *reputation* for nuance (which this person definitely does), their view is likely to influence that of others. At a large enough scale, that worsens the problem of "social pressure to make it more like Twitter", something that has already been causing a lot of trouble and changing the development direction of Mastodon (for the worse, from a marginalized perspective).

Basically this comic: https://webcomicname.com/post/185588404109

@virtulis Or to put it differently: a loud enough voice claiming that everything is wrong, will disrupt the culture of "privileged folks are guests of marginalized folks here" proportionally, and it will be marginalized folks paying the cost for that

@joepie91 that is a good point.

I don't know. I like being a guest here. But I kind of also want to build a home here, because here is nice. Which IRL usually means displacing the unprivileged, and I wonder if there's a way to avoid it on the internet. Should be, right?

:/

@virtulis @joepie91 I agree with some of what he's been saying (it is kinda unreasonable to expect people to make a decision as important as picking an instance off of approximately zero information, there's a bad reply guy culture, there are some serious UI/UX problems with mainline Mastodon and most clients that can drag the experience down above even a modest number of followers) but I have to say, "the solution is shadowbanning" certainly is A Take alright

@someonetellmetosleep @virtulis Oh, there are certainly some real problems. But these problems have been highlighted by a lot of other people, who *don't* mix those genuine problems in with "I just don't want to make any effort and that's a failure of the platform"-style rhetoric.

It's kind of a similar dynamic to that "they may be evil, but they had some good points" thing (not saying that this person is evil, but for analogy's sake) - that may be true, but there are less shitty people saying the same thing, so why hold up those specific people

@joepie91 @virtulis eh that's fair enough. idk, at this rate he'll either give up on fedi or finally migrate to a different instance with more proactive moderation before too long, I really can't see it ending any other way

@virtulis I would say that it's not impossible in this context; and that the answer lies in "accounting for the needs of the people who would be displaced, and explicitly making room for them, even if it comes at the cost of your own inconvenience".

Lots of people on fedi successfully do this, and it doesn't cause issues! But there are also people who don't, and who take a "this should cater to my needs specifically, because I'm used to everything doing so" stance, and that is IMO where it goes wrong.

Adapt to the local culture instead of expecting the culture to adapt to you, is pretty much what it comes down to.