Every time I read articles about infiltration on the left, I really have to wonder why the constant take-away is "trust no one" when the actual lesson should just be "listen to people pointing out abuse, harassment, and bigotry."
We'd get rid of a good chunk of infiltrators (and, more generally and more commonly, bad actors) if we'd actually give a single solitary fuck about any of *that*.
@whatanerd It's extremely telling how *every* time some infiltrator is ousted, you hear like 10+ people going "yeah they were always acting shady, and I tried to point it out, but nobody wanted to listen"
@whatanerd The flipside of that is that those who are most vulnerable to abuse, are often the least in a position to leave :/
@joepie91 I mean, tbh, when it comes to most of these places? Those of us who are most vulnerable to abuse often leave *despite* the lack of position to do so. And that's usually because we're *pushed out* for even trying to do *anything* at all.
@whatanerd Sure, I more mean it from a perspective of "you can't *expect* from those people to do that, in a 'taking a stance' sense".
Ultimately the responsibility for the problem lies with the abusive individuals and those shielding them.
@joepie91 I mean, it's a strategy and not a policy. But if people aren't listening, do bigger things.
And most of these spaces that are infiltrated are voluntary association and organising spaces. So it's not like I'm saying "just quit your job!" No one's really infiltrating our workspaces because they already own them.
Anyway, most of the people who "knew better" and "knew that person was an abuser long ago" are the same people who refused to do anything and are now smugly wandering around touting how they "always knew" someone was bad news. Which is why those people *should* be forced into explaining why they didn't do shit.
@whatanerd I broadly agree with you. But please do keep in mind that voluntary and organising spaces are not always voluntary for everybody, even if they're not workplaces - a lot of people are dependent on them for their social support net.
I've felt pushed out too many times. Now I'm staying on, trying to shore up the work my *real* colleagues are attempting to do.
If I bail again, the same dynamic will re-occur elsewhere because it always does. Might as well just stay where I am. :/
@xenophora @whatanerd @joepie91 The way I've seen abusive leaders defended so strenuously, on the grounds they're good leaders and an attack on them is an attack on the organization or the cause, that I've come to believe that it's specifically abusive behavior that we are trained to admire.
@joepie91 I cannot count how often I want to scream simply because of the amount of times I've literally responded to things with "If you thought there was a problem, why didn't you *do anything*?"
Like even if people aren't listening, make a bigger stand. Leave. Walk. Get out. I have left *so many places* because of that. If they're not taking someone else's safety seriously, then they're not taking *anyone's* safety seriously.