@forever @joepie91 @arcade I know! I recently saved someone from "prerendering" the pages of their multilingual dynamic website using headless browsers and waiting for the XHRs of thousands of URLs then saving the DOM. Now they're doing the bulk of the work server side with simple templating and they're amazed that prerendering one page doesn't take 8 seconds anymore but a fraction of one
@alinanorakari @forever@fedi.nullob.si @arcade Possibly useful to keep in your back pocket for when talking to someone who is doing React and Node:
- https://gist.github.com/joepie91/c0069ab0e0da40cc7b54b8c2203befe1
- https://www.npmjs.com/package/@joepie91/express-react-views
@joepie91 @forever @arcade "cached for the lifetime of the server process" … "If you have database access or other async operations, they should be done in your routes." … "does not support mounting those views on the client"
I don't even know where to start. It's all needlessly convoluted and wasteful and many devs could be much less wasteful if they took the time to learn developing a proper approach with less abstracting tools. But that would require more time per money so let's be wasetful.
@alinanorakari @forever@fedi.nullob.si @arcade Huh? This is specifically about server-side rendering of templates, as an alternative to browser-side SPAs.
@joepie91 @forever @arcade neither of those two options are really desirable in any project with sufficiently complex data though, also writing templates for the static parts using JSX is total overkill. A solid server-side language plus a basic templating engine like mustache and a lightweight frontend framework like alpine.js can replace 90% of the react projects I've seen while being vastly more efficient server- and client-side, indexable by international search engines and _fast_
@alinanorakari @forever@fedi.nullob.si @arcade I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here... the first link isn't about React at all (it specifically uses a 'dedicated' server-side templating library), and the latter literally *is* a templating library that just happens to use JSX. I feel like you're assuming a certain complexity associated with 'React' that isn't actually there... React itself is pretty much just a data-to-HTML converter, just like any other templater really.
@joepie91 I'm arguing that a website like http://adios-hola.org should not take between 5 and 10 seconds to finish loading and weigh 1.6 MB all things considered
@alinanorakari This is beginning to smell an awful lot like a personal attack rather than a good-faith conversation.
@joepie91 it seems to me like you're trying to play devil's advocate or relativize / defend those kinds of practices by trying to provide examples of how to make them more like what I endorse after I've stated that I'm arguing for an economical use of ressources in web design. I don't appreciate that
@alinanorakari If you wanted to give an example, then you should've probably actually taken a few minutes to understand its context.
Had you done so, you would have learned that a) this being an extremely time-sensitive disclosure, development speed was *literally* the most important priority, unlike in most projects, b) the check would have been impossible without browser-side code, and c) everything *except for* that check works fine without JS!
I wasn't "defending" anything. I was trying to help you by providing resources that you could pass on to people to save yourself time explaining how to do server-side templating. What I linked isn't "more like" what you're endorsing, it literally *is* what you're endorsing, for a specific tech stack. It was meant to support the point of "don't needlessly do browser-side JS".
What *I* don't appreciate is people lashing out at me when I'm trying to help them, based on broad (and wrong) generalizations like "oh it says React, so it must be unnecessary complex", without even bothering to understand what is actually being suggested.
@joepie91 You seem to have the idea that
1) this context changes the assessment that the outcome is wasteful
2) giving those resources to me would help with the topic of many devs being wasteful on their and our end
3) I was endorsing anything other than economic use of resources regardless of location: server or client
4) I'm lashing out at you
5) React isn't inherently more complex as a system on server and client side compared to workable lower level solutions
@joepie91 I'm trying to give you an example that is familiar to you. My point was and is that certain ways of developing websites invite wasteful behavior, it's especially prevalent in the React community and I condemn work like that that disregards careful wirk and disrespects everybody's ressources including their own server ressources