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pirating shit PSA:

do not pirate shit without Tor or a VPN over your home internet connection or a monitored network (work, a public wifi with an email signin you didn't bullshit, etc)

for torrenting or streaming video content: use a VPN. They can monitor what you download but literally none of them give a shit because their business model relies on enabling piracy and bypassing region-locks.

for anything else Tor is probably okay and can't be traced back to you. just keep in mind that Tor bandwidth is a public resource and some people need Tor to browse, so you shouldn't waste it on stuff like seeding in P2P networks or inefficient downloads.

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Extras:

Tribler tribler.org/ claims to be a bittorrent-based platform with its own Tor-like network that allows you to download anonymously. However it is not yet very mature and some users have reported getting ISP piracy notices anyways when using it.

I'll also add that i2p is a very very safe network for torrenting having similar benefits to Tor, except the network encourages that type of usage. It also requires much more IT knowledge to setup than Tor or a VPN. So if you can't afford a VPN and want to torrent something common it may be on an i2p torrent tracker (like postman), but be forewarned: i2p is even slower than Tor and i2p torrents are not the same as regular torrents, so if you are using i2p you can only torrent i2p torrents and not regular torrents which limits your selection.

Example scenarios:

- Want to torrent something? Use a VPN, i2p, or maybe tribler
- Want to stream video from a sketchy place? Use a VPN.
- Want to download an ebook without getting caught? Use Tor or a VPN.
- Want to download a large collection of isos or roms? Use a VPN, tribler, or i2p.

@thufie might I recommend feralhosting.com , they own their ISP and all the hardware, you can torrent to your "personal server" and stream from there, you get like 4 TiB and gigabit internet or something ridiculous for $17 ish/mo

@epi @thufie not really, it's more like having an account on a big mainframe. You can imagine it like a VPS though.

@epi @thufie it does come with a very good VPN service too

@zardoz @thufie but like. can I use it to host a website for instance?

@thufie Are there free VPN services or are they all paid?

@LunaDragofelis there are and they are usually either honeypots (intentional traps for catching people) or for activist networks (riseup) and I wouldn't recommend using either for torrenting (don't steal bandwidth used for activist anonymity). Any super-cheap VPN is better.

@thufie I hope there is one that allows bank transfer payment because I neither have a credit card nor a paypal account

@LunaDragofelis @thufie check out mullvad

you can even pay them by sending them physical money via (irl)mail

Piracy PSA 

Piracy PSA 

@thufie
You have to have a trustworthy VPN provider though...

@dheadshot this is just for pirating shit, not hacking the gibson

@thufie
Doesn't stop the VPN provider from ratting you out...

@thufie or just download everything via someone elses wifi by breaking in with aircrack-ng or like, buying a coffee and chilling in a starbucks for two hours. VPN's and TOR exit nodes are usually honey pots. Not like they're used for catching piracy tbh but it's just easier to go enjoy some warm espresso with my stolen shit

@thufie
:thaenkin:

In centerfold-style:

DO NOT PIRATE

--

DO NOT PIRATE

SHIT

--

DO NOT PIRATE

SHIT

(in fine print: without a Tor or VPN over your home internet connection or a monitored network...)

@SunSaint to avoid your ISP getting pissed off (in most areas ISPs give you a finite number of warnings and then they cut off your service altogether)

@thufie what about if you live in Canada where legal precedent suggests they won't go after you?

@zx go wild :)
(but check the email you gave to your ISP just in case)

@thufie please dont use tor f or torrenting. People use it for important stuff and hogging bandwidth makes the experience slow for everyone.

i2p is much more suited for torrenting on their network.

@thufie

Please FFS, don't use Tor for that kind of bullshit use.

Some people seriously rely on Tor to stay alive in their country or so. The network is pretty slow compared to the "normal" one. If everybody start to torrent/etc. in Tor, it'll become unusable.

Tor endpoints are often aimed to DDOS attacks (we host one at Aquilenet), it's really a critical thing.

So please, do not advice people to use Tor for anything unrelated to their own life safety/security, just please. It would be better to not even mention it's exist when it comes to download.

Thank you :-)
@thufie
I read it but get triggered before the end

I saw you said to not use it but in first line you advice it and was like: "wat? meh" ^^'
@blobyoumu @thufie
Nah dude
Torrent is one of the best protocol to share files ; it's pretty resilient thanks to distribution.
It also allows to share quite easily data (remember my Tb uploaded with almost nothing downloaded)

The problem is: how can you be trouble-free with something that "authenticate" you with your IP, related to your ISP

(I don't know if I'm understandable, my mind is numb)

@duponin @blobyoumu I think I understand what you are saying. I was just saying not to use it with Tor not because it is inherently inefficient (which isn't true) but because for the stuff people are typically using it for, it is a waste of valuable bandwidth on the Tor network.

@thufie @blobyoumu
We totally agree on that topic

So I don't really understand why in your first sentence you advice to use "Tor or a VPN" .-.
It's like at the opposite of the message you want to share in the last paragraph

@duponin @blobyoumu I say Tor or a VPN and then explain which one to use for which case.

I highly encourage using Tor to download ebooks, for example, as not only are they small files that don't make a dent in traffic, but there are several very good hidden libraries on Tor hidden services as well.

@thufie @duponin maybe it is not really for downloading stuff ingeneral. Finding books in tor is nice. It has nice libraries which contain good reads even some censored for whatever reason.
@duponin @thufie downloading using vpn is different but you have to buy a nice vpn plan or maybe. Use someones OpenVPN instance from country that allowes said download. Depending what you have to do.
Anyways downloading through tor is inefficient aside from yes overloading the network
@blobyoumu @duponin @thufie i've personally downloaded without a vpn for years now and nothing bad's happened, not even a scare letter

most american ISPs don't give a rat's ass about piracy. they just want your money. they mail out letters when they detect torrenting sometimes, because the MPAA and RIAA threatened to sue otherwise, but unless you're large scale distributing you'll be fine
@sylveon @duponin @thufie yeah i've heard it's not the downloading that is illegal but spreading aka seeding

@thufie or just... don't steal other people's work?

@tw @thufie it's one thing to be a dick to indie artists, it's another to take shit from companies that give zero fucks about the creators they hired and aren't giving a cut of the actual product sales

@thufie
what's the benefit of vpn or tor over just forcing encryption through your torrent client?
with forced encryption your ISP can still see the traffic but they have no way to prove what it actually is, and afaik its functionally no different from using a vpn or tor, except that outsiders (not ur isp) can see where the traffic came from, which without knowing what the traffic is, is useless information when it comes to dmca notices

@Lumb @thufie that generally comes down to various anti-piracy orgs running honeypot torrents and being able to decrypt it on their side(as is necessary)

That's what we understand at least

@Lumb ISPs have tools which basically sit on torrent networks and wait until they see your IP connect to request files and they flag you instantly that way. They know where you are connecting too, which tells them just as much as reading a data stream.

@thufie
see my question is how would they see that you're requesting a file tho if it's all encrypted

context: I've only used vpns at friends houses, on my own internet, where my seedbox lives, I havent gotten a dmca notice in five+ years since I started forcing encryption and using a non-standard port

@thufie
actually nvm, I use private trackers too so harder for them to get on those networks n that might splain it tbh

@Lumb also a lot of the time ISPs will send you DMCA notices even when they aren't really sure what you just downloaded (which I think is probably why some people who use Tribler get DMCA notices). They will bluff, basically.

@thufie my understanding is that bittorrent doesn't work through a VPN? like it won't actually go through the proxy. has this changed?

@quarky if your entire system is going through a VPN connection then it will as well. It has never been automatic (unless there is a badass bittorrent client I don't know about). This has always been the case.

@thufie @quarky i followed my vpn's guide on how to set qbittorrent to only connect through the vpn's network interface, and what settings to disable to prevent leaking

mullvad.net/en/help/bittorrent

@thufie IANAL but in most jurisdictions you aren't committing a crime by downloading shit. the reason why bittorrent can be problematic in certain countries is because you're also seeding.

use VPN if you can trust them, but it is not always necessary. ask your local hackers.

@uint8_t @thufie In Holland there is an organization who has been pushing the limits regarding downloads via torrents. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BREIN Last time I read in mass media is that they wanted to go after simple home users. I've heard that in Germany the situation is worse. But that is hearsay. No sources as weblinks to share here right now.

@Ajz @thufie years ago I shared a digitalocean VPS (in NL) with my flatmates, and one day I got an email from them telling me they got a DMCA complaint against my IP address...

turns out my friend accidentally kept seeding some very recent movie with 1 Gbit

I turned that off and that was all

@thufie ok, but with all these VPNs, which ones are presently legit, not based in DMCA nation-states, and don’t run an arm and a leg to subscribe to

@patience that is a verrrry difficult question to answer but imo that doesn't matter 70% of the time because if these companies cut off bittorrent traffic they'd lose a ton of business.

If you are super serious about it, well you'd have to find a VPN service HQ'd outside the fourteen-eyes alliance that keeps no logs. The problem with that is there is literally no way to actually check if they are keeping logs. I'm sure some paranoid guys from 4chan's /g/ can give you a list of what they think is kosher and not, but in the end they are still relying on what is basically faith in a promise from a VPN operator.

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